Curse

Teh Jace · Feb 13, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Hey guys. I guess many of u already noticed that dual monk (healer's covenant n smiter + shattering sin and derv) build. I would call this build a tool how to get ur desired glad title quickly and without any effort.
I know many gay builds but honesly... I have never met such idiotproof, overpowered and easy to play crap before.

Our common setup is W, R, P (the offensive one with rend ench and crip anthem) or 2xW, R. Necro will remain useless unless Anet fixes bugged spotless mind I guess.
I found this gimmick very hard to beat without BHA on our ranger. So here is our tactics. We just rend the smiter, kd him and fire BHA. And here it starts... we have to keep reapplying all our conds (poison, war is sometimes crip slash) to keep dazed covered since he loses 1 cond every 3 sec thanks to spotless soul. It means all our firepower must be focused on the smiter.
Monk is ofc having hard times with shattering and derv training him but he usually lasts long enough for us to score the first kill. But sometimes not.

With magebane... beating this build is even harder but we managed it several times.

Everytime I face this garbage and retards who run it (yes, retards) I feel like I wanna quit gw.

I would like to know if u have some good tactics how to fight this menace with common TA balanced build. Our ratio wins vs losses against this is like 50:50 so this stuff usually ruins our runs.

Maybe some AoE effects would own them since they both usually attack the same target or dunno... Share ur hints and tactics if u can cuz this is another build which kills TA.

And please... no advices like OMG BRING 3X ESURGE MESMER U NOOB! We stick to balanced build.

moko · Feb 13, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

when we run hexes, we corrupt the hell out of the healer's covenant (or take rend, too), snare the hell out of the melees with grasping (which isn't that hard) and degen out the monks. enfeeble helps vs the derv.

if it's magebane, we just spread poison like mad, they should eventually drop to it. as you already said, BHA would be better versus that, but i'm not going to spec with a dumb BHA just to beat it. debshot on the healer's covenant while the elite is town was pretty nice as well.

snares are really important (which some of our builds lack), so if you don't have that, good luck not exploding.

on a sidenote, the train makes it very easy to d-shot the sin's lead and siphon with veil up. this reduces pressure GREATLY, as prots can stay up for once.

ps, hi jace :>

and if it's not coming to buildwars, you can pretty much /resign before it even starts.

EDIT: i still got to use an ele gimmick i made versus them. i believe that should work too. teeeh :<

yum · Feb 13, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

run a gayer hammer spike build or 2 dual rits with blind and brutal.

Orange Milk · Feb 13, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

We've run it and we are not retards. So let's not name call because you loose at something, K?

It's powerful enough we don't even bother with a shatter Sin and a Derv, we just roll 2 Warriors and smash everything infront of us.

If you want to beat it don't take any form of KD. The Smiters Elite is then wasted. Dropping the necro is a good move as that cancels 2 other skills by the monks (Smite Hex and Spotless Mind) Glue the Mage Bane to the Smitter. They have no Prot, Balts Pendulem is about it as far as that goes, so just rush in and attack, go for the steamroll with no KD's. But basically it's set up so balanced can't beat it.

Teh Jace · Feb 13, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

As Moko (hey

) stated grasping is great against them but still... its not the ultimate solution. Having sin's combo locked helps ofc too but sin has usually crit defenses so dshot it is impossible since we have no massive ench removal so its up most of the time.

Bringing no kd is very funny idea. U need kd to kill a good monk.

As I said we go after the dazed smiter so we can actually use kd, our warrior can press the magical frenzy button without being hit for insane dmg from smiting spells and also... Healer's covenant monk has CoP, smiter usually lacks it.

Orange Milk : If u have run it I have no problem with it. But if u farm using this every day and u keep flaming after every win then yes I dont like it.

yum : lol nice, lets bring hammer warriors to counter pendulum

urania · Feb 13, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

i must admit i was quite surprised how no one wanted to create a thread for that retardedly strong gimmick for so long...compare it with monk spike, weaker (if you have a good ranger with magebane and a decent ping and if u dont screw up ur positioning) but got its own thread pretty fast.

at orange milk, oh yeah, sure, lets spec just for that build and then lose to a normal balanced , some paraway and hey, perhaps to a monk spike and to a standard farm build with monk, rit, thumper and packhunter, right?

its just so, so wrong that a monk can have an average of 30 energy throughout the entire match, no matter how long it lasts.
Ive always hated overheal and dual monk or whatever kind of healer builds in ta, but this one is plain stupid and retardedly strong - overpowered.
As a side note, the main reason why the build is so annoying is because of the healers convenant monk, not the smiter.

There is an easy way how to own the build...a good domi mesmer would rape it hard, tough luck they are kinda bad in ta now in most of the cases.

Foe · Feb 13, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

321 rend repeat ,ce on spotless as much as possible its gg everytime for the good guys. As Moko pointed out the ranger can snag any of the 3 sin attacks and render him harmless as Shatter is what makes killing stuff possible([email protected]). You guys run a paragon and thats why you fail vs these.

Barkeep · Feb 13, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I am still amazed so many people run this build. I played it once and it didnt exactly feel overpowered. Although we ran a hammer warrior instead of the D/E.

So far I've played about 7 or 8 times against this setup with balanced and never lost.

As a ranger I spread poison on everyone, deb shot the HC and try to interrupt smite hex/dwaynas and wild strike and try my luck on a few 1/4 sec casts.

Our assassin or warrior focused on killing their offensive characters first. Very often he'd score a kill in the first 10 seconds of the match. Both monks lack any protection skills so the assassin should be an easy target.

We still use a necro, and his grasping seemed to be effective enough to give our monk a chance to get away and heal up. I really dont know if the hexes were sticking on very long. I suppose spotless keeps at least one out of two clean. But the other one should be slowed most of the time.

They got no shutdown at all, so you should be able to get all your pressure out on them. Poison on all of them, corrupt, faint, deb shot and a melee who's bashing away without any restrictions all game. These games should not take longer than 2 minutes. Not even vs 2 monks.

Aera · Feb 13, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

We were trying your Ele Moko, but our warrior kept erroring so we didn't get the chance. But yes, it should keep the pressure down a lot.

We did have the discussion with [skill]Balthazar's Pendulum[/skill] and [skill]Whirlwind[/skill][skill]Tenai's Wind[/skill].
If you use them all the time, ball up, both melees should be pretty much shut down. You can KD the Monks if they use it on the melee, and the other way around. So yes, it should work.

the_deSKtructor · Feb 13, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foe

321 rend repeat ,ce on spotless as much as possible its gg everytime for the good guys. As Moko pointed out the ranger can snag any of the 3 sin attacks and render him harmless as Shatter is what makes killing stuff possible([email protected]). You guys run a paragon and thats why you fail vs these.

Try out ce and spotless and find out that spotless is bugged and it doesn't work.

Maybe fixing the 2 spotless skills would make this build less powerful, still the hc synergy with heal enchantments is way too strong imo.

A change to HC so it affects enchantments aswell would be nice (sth like 25% less duration on heal ecnhantments) but then patient would become even stronger.

Also, any enchantment removal is almost useless vs the hc guy, if he is smart he will just be covering it with vigoruous spirit or any other enchantment. I'd rather use my ce on smiters boon or on spikes hoping to remove the pendulums.

Foe · Feb 13, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

ppl keep claiming this but it seems to work 4 us, maybe im wrong i dunno, but regardless do the other stuff and you will be fine, we dont lose to this, ever. If everyone knows what they are doing they cant score a kill and you just keep high pressure and spiking w/ rend. If your losing to this someone on your team is flake'n or your running a para

Popo · Feb 13, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

As a CE Necro I just try to do my job as much as possible with hexes/snares and my team seems to pull it off all the time. Maybe there's something I'm missing but I don't see the problem with this build.

P.S. What's with people using the word gimmick in a derogatory sense for every build they have a tough time beating?

Teh Jace · Feb 13, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Ok maybe Im not that pro but Karla, Moko and Celly can confirm we do have problems beating this build.

And dunno, suddenly all ppl who fail at TA started using this and reporting they usually hit about 40+ wins. So imo something is wrong (and no Im not jealous).

yum · Feb 13, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Maybe I misunderstood the version of the build you guys are talking about. But the "gimmick" I ran CAN'T lose to pressure, and it has good shutdown.

But oh well, in case you meet my version of the build just run the things on #3. (if the 2 monks knows what they are doing, the blind build will fail eventually though)

Sun Fired Blank · Feb 14, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

My view is that Covenant-Way or HC-Way or SpamPatientLulzWay is a meta choice. To be frank, it's very, very close to autowin versus the necro balanced template (W/E, R/Mo, N/E, Mo/X) if your team isn't extremely high calibur. It also matches rather favorably versus the para balanced template (W/E, R/Mo, P/N, Mo/X), and makes the notion of a hammer fairly laughable.

Outside of everything mentioned, if your paragon has any spike options, you should use them frequently with the frontliner. Any large bursts of damage are very hard for HC to catch. Cripanthem only creates miniscule gaps to breathe and enables the smite condition to be absurdly powerful, but you can play defensively (although no Bull's Strike) and maybe get more breathing space.

It might help to try and get your single frontliner to start more spikes than pressure. HC (enabled by pendulum) can fairly easily survive the steady pressure of a shock axe or a cripslash. Heck, the very nature of the build is designed to counteract every form of pressure in a standard balanced template, so you're not likely to break them in that fashion.

To be frank, the build's only defeat is a high volume of physical damage (no hammer and you stomp them); however, it's a rather perfect example of rock - paper - scissors versus a great deal of shit, and that's rather exasperating.

I'm kinda sick of TA and PvP in general, no real enthusiasm for any of the formats anymore. At some point, build wars, title farming and button-mashing is no damn fun.

Orange Milk · Feb 14, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania
at orange milk, oh yeah, sure, lets spec just for that build and then lose to a normal balanced

I don't see where I told him to spec simply for this build. I simply told him not to run KD's on the warrior, which was already in the build, Agreed with him on not running a Necro and asked him to direct the Magebane that he already runs onto the Smitter.

Read his post, read my post, learn2play

Thanks

BTW urania A crip/slash or a Conjure/Axe warrior would be used in place and do just fine against other builds as well, they would simply not use Shock or Bulls when facing this team, but a Dev Hammer or BB Hammer would be useless.

the_deSKtructor · Feb 14, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

How many wars bar did u see without any form of kd? Steady stance and cslash maybe? If i don't have to run kds then i'd better use a derv or a sin :/

Orange Milk · Feb 14, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

they would simply not use Shock or Bulls when facing this team,

Never said they should have NO KD's in the build, just that a dedicated KD warrior is rendered useless.

Also I was attempting to stick with the balanced class build the OP expressed he likes to run, which includes a warrior.

urania · Feb 14, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

I don't see where I told him to spec simply for this build. I simply told him not to run KD's on the warrior, which was already in the build, Agreed with him on not running a Necro and asked him to direct the Magebane that he already runs onto the Smitter.

Read his post, read my post, learn2play

Thanks

BTW urania A crip/slash or a Conjure/Axe warrior would be used in place and do just fine against other builds as well, they would simply not use Shock or Bulls when facing this team, but a Dev Hammer or BB Hammer would be useless.

u're funny, telling ME to l2p and urself abusing that i-fail-at-gw build.

also, conjure is baed. l2p

also #2, you know, kinda hard to kill if u cant kd, its called shutdown around which most of the balanced builds resolve around, dont ya think so?

also #3, how is the following post NOT calling for a spec?

Quote:

If you want to beat it don't take any form of KD. The Smiters Elite is then wasted. Dropping the necro is a good move as that cancels 2 other skills by the monks (Smite Hex and Spotless Mind) Glue the Mage Bane to the Smitter. They have no Prot, Balts Pendulem is about it as far as that goes, so just rush in and attack, go for the steamroll with no KD's. But basically it's set up so balanced can't beat it.

not having bulls strike/shock on a warrs bar=go play tetris.

Orange Milk · Feb 14, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Can't read can ya Urania? Or is it simply can't comprehend what you read?

Never said I "abuse" the build, just said I've run it. So I guess you read that part, just didn't comprehend.

I know it's kinda hard to kill without KD, thats why the smitter runs Balts Pend, rendering your KD's useless, therefore another form of damage dealing is needed, like a cripslash.

Again, as I explained, I didn't have him "spec" solely for this build, the ideas I put forth will work against other builds, I was simply suggesting a rearangement of his current build.

Quote:

BTW urania A crip/slash or a Conjure/Axe warrior would be used in place and do just fine against other builds as well, they would simply not use Shock or Bulls when facing this team, but a Dev Hammer or BB Hammer would be useless.

Re-read this, comprehend this, or try to if you can.

I'll explain so you don't waste hours trying to figure it out. It says to take a crip slash or a Conjure Axe WITH Shock or Bulls, just not use those two skills against this team. I also explained this in the post above yours, but I guess thats where the part about you not being able to read comes in.

Go play Pong, should be a tad advanced for your level, but you have to start somewhere.